Talk:Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides

King George II
This article states that George II of Great Britain is a character in this upcoming film. A problem is evident, as George II did not take the throne until 1727, nine years after Blackbeard (another historical figure that is a character in this film) was killed by Robert Maynard. George II could be a character in this film, but this article would have to refer to him as either Prince George of Wales, as that was his title from 1714 to June 11, 1727, or as Duke Georg August of Hanover, as that was his title from birth on October 25, 1683 to 1714. Perhaps it is not George II that is a character in this film, but his father George I who ran the country during Blackbeard's piracy, and it was he who pressed hard on his Navy to stop him. If this film does have George II as king then this film takes place in an alternate universe? - Mdriver1981 (talk) 01:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * In the POTC universe, Blackbeard wasn't killed in the Battle of Ocracoke Inlet in 1718. He grew old and that's why he's searching for the Fountain of Youth, to become young again. How he survived at Ocracoke Inlet will be explained in Pirates of the Caribbean: Six Sea Chanties graphic novel. Also, the Queen Anne's Revenge still floats, so we can say that this is some sort of Alternate history film.--89.172.199.125 (talk) 10:10, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * One might also point out that the letter of Marque from the second film bore a portrait of George II, but if Blackbeard is going to be portrayed as an old man then that is probably just a mistake since Blackbeard was only in his later 30s when he died, but would have been in his late 40s when George II took the throne, and since he's being played by a 68-year old man then that would place this movie around the late 1740s/early 1750s (though that goes against the historical fact that Port Royal was not a major port during that time, which again could be answered as simply alternate history). Emperor001 (talk) 04:49, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The presence of Ferdinand VI of Spain in the cast list means the setting must be between that King's accession in 1746 and death in 1759. Opera hat (talk) 21:38, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

This film takes place in 1750 --161.53.27.4 (talk) 08:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That link doesn't necessarily support a 1750 date. The articles says "...there are a lot more realistic elements being brought in from the real world into this one. Black Beard obviously, the Queen Anne’s Revenge, the production designed them the same, there’s a clear date of 1750 because that’s where you obviously got Execution Doc" (sic). Why should a reference to Execution Dock tie the date to 1750? And it's not even the screenwriter who says that, but the interviewer. Opera hat (talk) 21:10, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's another source for 1750 though. Opera hat (talk) 22:00, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Barbossa's ship, HMS Providence, is flying the version of the Union Flag that wasn't adopted until 1801 which would set the film in the 19th century (...or may well be an erroneous anachronism!) 80.176.88.21 (talk) 00:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That's probably an anachronism, because they're using the 18th century version of the White Ensign on their boats.--Max Tomos (talk) 12:57, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It is clearly stated in the movie that the king rules Ireland too, so it would make much more sense if the king is actually King George III... 93.172.147.128 (talk) 15:15, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * George II was also the King of Ireland.--Max Tomos (talk) 07:14, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, my mistake. I was confused because he wasn't the king of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. 93.172.147.128 (talk) 11:28, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Messed Up Infobox
there is messed up text in the infobox. I don't know how to correct this, so will someone please fix it? MistyPony1994 (talk) 21:02, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Filming
It is okay for the film to have an article now, as filming has begun.The Editor 155 (talk) 13:39, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * As long as sources confirm the start of principal photography after shooting has begun. (WP:NFF). Alex Douglas (talk) 14:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I have not yet found such as source. It is not "okay for the film to have an article" until a source is found. Alex Douglas (talk) 14:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

What about this source, which states that filming has begun? The Editor 155 (talk) 15:24, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Bruckheimer mentions it on his Twitter page, you can't get more official than that--Gaunt (talk) 08:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Awesome. Thanks! 124.171.220.211 (talk) 13:18, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Richard Thomson in Pirates 4
Richard Thomson IS in Pirates 4. I don't know why, but for some reason, the article is missing. It was PROOF that he is in Pirates 4. And I know that we need sources, I am a user at a Wiki(I'm just not too big on joining this Wikipedia, because this is where the most vandalism happens). All I'm asking is that I earn your trust on this, for I am a user at PotC Wiki, I've looked up ALL PotC news(minus the Paul Benzley thing, which again I apologize for), and I am a HUGE fan of the films. So, please allow me to put Richard Thompson's name in the cast list without a source. And I know we have to have a source for these things(I am a Wiki person), but for this one time, can we not use a source? Because that source about Richard Thomson WAS on the internet, but it disappeared for some reason and I can't find it. I wouldn't making it a big deal unless if I had good reasons too. 75.90.114.117 (talk) 20:40, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No... we really don't have to add anything. Try Google cache.  Or add  next to his name in the article which will tell readers that there is no source and maybe someone will add one. Mike  Allen   21:33, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. But actually, I think I'll do the fact thing(mostly because I've looked everywhere in google for that information). Oh,and just to let you know, my IP address may change from time to time(I don't know why, I'm not a technical person). But I will make changes if necessary. 75.90.114.117 (talk) 21:54, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Film logo
Hey, if you guys need a pic for the infobox on this film, I'd suggest you get. It's the most recent AND it's got GREAT quality. You guys don't have to take it, but if you want it, here it is. :) 75.89.207.133 (talk) 01:55, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * What's the original source? Mike Allen   02:58, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I know who did this, it was someone from POTC Wiki. The original original source(where that person got it from), was from the Comic-con Announcement. CJS2.0 (talk) 22:50, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Budget cuts
This portion of the Filming section

Disney Studios chairman Rich Ross restricted the film's budget to $200 million, $100 million less than At World's End and $25 million less than Dead Man's Chest, in order to cut costs.

From what I've read, the source of this information about the budget cuts is false. If you want more information of what I'm talking about, here is a source of Terry Rossio addressing the budget cut news: http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=65778

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Rich Ross didn't make the budget $200 million, I'm just saying we need a more reliable source about anything involving the budget cuts. Because it has been confirmed that the LA times article isn't entirely reliable. CJS2.0 (talk) 21:32, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the Coming Soon article's source is a message board - and message boards are generally considered not to be valid sources for WP references. Besides, this article points out that Rossio "kind of admits that he doesn’t actually know what Pirates of the Caribbean 4’s budget will be". It will be best to keep with the facts at hand, those being the direct quotes from Ross in a newspaper article rather than edits taken from a message board posting that contains conjecture. SpikeJones (talk) 02:21, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Pirates 4 cost only $250 milion. No $378 milion Jackson 96 (talk) 17:28, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

The budget of this movie is only $250 milion Jackson 96 (talk) 17:33, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Casting
With the recent editing of this article(concerning the casting), I would like to make a few points(just what I noticed):

Almost everything that was edited in here(from IMDB), is not true. There are only a handful of stuff from IMDB is even true(other than the main casting). The only person I think we can keep that was written in IMDB is "Sebastian Armesto as King Ferdinand". I think that this is the ONLY thing in IMDB, in the case of casting in IMDB, that is true because of what's been revealed about the opening scene of the film(which did include King Ferdinand). CJS2.0 (talk) 03:15, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The point is that WP is not IMDB. That is, IMDB is a place to have a complete cast listing whereas WP is not a place to include it. It is not encyclopedic to include who "Palace Guard #2" was. SpikeJones (talk) 03:35, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

wasn't there an asian mermaid? what happened? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.190.194.171 (talk) 13:21, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Mònica Cruz is stand in for her sister due to the pregnancy, but she is not mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.202.216.178 (talk) 17:13, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

New Infobox image
I think we should change the infobox image of the teaser poster(which says "Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides Summer 2011"), with this image, which does have the release date on it. And it is an official Disney logo, as said here:

http://ramascreen.com/pirates-of-the-caribbean-on-stranger-tides-new-logo-and-updated-synopsis/

I would do it myself, but I don't know how to upload images in WP. CJS2.0 (talk) 12:32, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

New trilogy?
Is POTC4 the first part of a second trilogy?173.58.53.212 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:18, 24 February 2011 (UTC).
 * It could be.--Max Tomos (talk) 09:45, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I hope not.PNW Raven (talk) 18:16, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Film poster
The film poster is not correct. The current one is the international poster, indicated by the fact that it says "In Cinemas" on it versus "In Theaters." The correct domestic (US) poster can be found here. The IMAX 3D poster can be found here. If anyone doesn't have an issue with this, I will go ahead a change it. --TravisBernard (talk) 18:54, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I also check the manual of style and there is no clear indication of how to chose an international version versus a domestic one. Also, IMDb sites the domestic one as the official poster.  Thoughts? --TravisBernard (talk) 21:05, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Broader Revisions
For the past week, I've been working on a series of revisions for this page. Several of these edits help the article meet the standards listed in the Film MOS, while other edits simply improve the organization, references, and flow of the article. The film will be released in less than a month, so I think these edits are both necessary and urgent. A link to my revisions can be found here.

Here's a summary of what these edits include:
 * Revised and edited the introduction paragraphs to meet the MOS Film Standards. Used sentence structure that resembled the article for Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest.  Improved sentence structure and added sources.
 * Updated "Info box." Removed release date of May 17, 2011 (Cannes International Film Festival).  Although the MOS for Film does say that an advance screening can count as the release date, other films like Tron: Legacy and Up had advance screenings but the release date is still listed as the theatrical release date and not the advance screening date.  I included the UK release date because several scenes in the film were shot in London, and the film premieres two days earlier in the UK.
 * Changed "Premise" section to "Plot" and reworded the plot. My plot summary meets the MOS for film, while the current version does not.
 * Removed information about Angelica being Blackbeard's daughter from the Cast section. Although this information was revealed in an MTV interview by Jerry Bruckheimer, I feel that it is a plot spoiler and should be deleted.  I also added the word "Captain" in front of "Jack Sparrow" because that is his official title.
 * Made a few minor changes in the "Development" section to give the article a more neutral tone. Currently it seems a little critical of Dick Cook, and I think we need to put this in a more neutral form.
 * In the filming section, I reworded the budget. This is a mere estimate, and no official number has been released by the studio.  I think referencing the source verbally provides added value.
 * Implemented a few minor edits in the soundtrack section.
 * Reworded, added sources, and reorganized the promotion section to improve clarity.
 * Added "Release" formats and a few international release dates.
 * Added additional references to improve overall quality of article.
 * Finally, I am proposing adding a few pictures to the article. I included the suggested images in my draft.  I think these three highlight the additions made for the film (Blackbeard and Angelica), while also clinging to the roots of the franchise (Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow).

I'd love to get some feedback on my draft so that we can bring this article up to speed. As previously mentioned, the film is coming out on May 20, so I think there's an immediate need to get these edits implemented. Any and all feedback is welcome. Thanks. --TravisBernard (talk) 23:08, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I made the above edits, except for adding the pictures. I'd like to keep an open conversation about the edits, and feedback is greatly encourage. --TravisBernard (talk) 17:21, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The pictures have been added, along with captions. If anyone has suggestions for the captions, please let me know.  Thanks. --TravisBernard (talk) 20:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

MPAA Rating in Intro Paragraph
MPAA ratings are typically not included within Wikipedia articles unless it is extremely notable (see Rio (film)). Even if we decide to include this, I don't think it should be in the introduction paragraph. Instead, it should be moved to the production section. Thoughts? --TravisBernard (talk) 13:02, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree, I keep meaning to just delete the information as it is irrelevant to the article and unless it has some major impact, i.e. Alien going from R to PG, then it isn't worth mentioning. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 13:06, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and made this change. Thanks. --TravisBernard (talk) 16:26, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The only reason why I added it in the first place is because it's the first Disney movie to be rated PG-13 for any form of sexual content (in this case, "sensuality and innuendo"). That makes it notable, doesn't it? --Ryanasaurus007 (talk) 15:22, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Not particularly. Spider-Man being a 12A is notable because the rating was created JUST for Spider-Man.  It's not like this is the first Disney film to be filled with sexual innuendo, most of their kid shows are pimping out underage girls (see:The Ring (South Park)).  You can always ask other opinions of course, I don't control the article but my personal opinion is that it isn't notable. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 15:37, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, if you go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Film they will be able to tell you if it is notable or not. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 16:08, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Blackbeard
Should we make a new article for the POTC version of Blackbeard? We could name it Blackbeard (Pirates of the Caribbean).--Max Tomos (talk) 12:09, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, as more information is released for this version of the character. --Boycool (talk) 12:24, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Woah, woah, no. He's a character that appears in one film that isn't even released yet.  There is nowhere near enough information to warrant him his own article.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 12:34, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Darkwarriorblake. Let's wait until the release of the film.  The topic doesn't meet the notability guidelines quite yet.  If it has a significant box office opening, I think that's enough to give it notability.   --TravisBernard (talk) 20:59, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually I don't think that would make the character notable since for Blackbeard to be notable there needs to be significant coverage of the character himself not simply the fact that he was in a successful film since notability is not inheritied.--76.66.185.169 (talk) 03:52, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Distribution
I have a question regarding the Studio and Distributed by section of this film's infobox (and others like it). If the film was released by Walt Disney Pictures, should it say Walt Disney Pictures in both the studio category and the distribution category or should the company's distribution arm (Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures), also be credited as distributor? I am confused on whether who's specifically the distributor for the film. ~ Jedi94  (talk) 19:04, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

The first movie in the series which features fictional versions of historical characters.
This is wrong, the majority of the Brethren Court in At Worlds End were historical pirates. 78.86.8.163 (talk) 07:31, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * All members of the Brethren Court in Pirates 3 were fictional pirates, and only two of them were based on historical pirates, Mistress Ching (based on Ching Shih) and Sri Sumbhajee (based on Kanhoji Angre). Aside from that, there was not a single historical pirate in Pirates 3.--Max Tomos (talk) 12:26, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Plot
Does anyone else think that the revised plot contains several spoilers? I've seen the movie twice already, and I believe the plot sections should be trimmed down, and spoiler free.--TravisBernard (talk) 19:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a spoiler free zone. Those wishing to not be spoiled about subjects should avoid encyclopedia entries that describe said subjects in detail. --Aml830 (talk) 19:30, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That's that a valid point, but I think the issue stretches beyond spoilers: the plot is also way too long. It should be reduced to 500-700 words.  Currently it is over 1,000 words.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by TravisBernard (talk • contribs) 21:19, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It can be longer than 700 if 700 isn't enough to adequately explain the plot. That said I haven't seen it yet so I don't know if it is a particularly complex film and I won't read the plot lest I spoil myself, so if you have a problem with it, feel free to edit it, if it shouldn't be over 700, reduce it.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 21:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Star Trek reference
The design of the Fountain of Youth in the film is clearly a nod to the 1960s Star Trek episode The City on the Edge of Forever (see the infobox). A review here mentions this, is this reliable enough for the article?-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 16:41, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the source is reliable, but I don't think the reference is notable. If multiple reliable sources report on the Star Trek nod, then it could be considered notable.  Something like an interview with Jerry Bruckheimer that mentions this would probably be the best source.  That would indicate that it was clearly intentional.  --TravisBernard (talk) 19:43, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Reception
In Germany, 1.32 mio. viewers came to the cinemas in the first week from Thursday to Sunday, making it the highest debut week for a film in 2011, surpassing Till Schweiger's Kokowääh which had 838,000 viewers in its first week. This made the film also the 1st one in 2011 to reach 1 mio. viewers as early as the debuting week and stopped Fast Five from becoming the most viewed film of the week for a 4th time by far. source--79.199.54.183 (talk) 18:12, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I note the criticism due to "excessiveness". What is excessiveness supposed to mean?203.184.41.226 (talk) 03:11, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

It Was Way Different From This In The Real Pirates
We need a bulleted list of the names and aliases of all the pirates, because you all clearly have no idea about the real pirates and their folkways.

69.254.165.61 (talk) 23:17, 3 June 2011 (UTC) Admiral Electric

As I read, the pirate societies were socially conservative in the legislature except in the areas of consent and controlled substances.

69.254.165.61 (talk) 01:03, 28 June 2011 (UTC) Admiral Electric

Property laws were strict: without exception, one pirate might not take another pirate's property.

69.254.165.61 (talk) 01:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC) Admiral Electric

In the case of civic emergency, the usual course of events was that one pirate would be elevated to the status of centralized investor in the solution, in order that public order not be disturbed by riot.

69.254.165.61 (talk) 14:36, 28 June 2011 (UTC) Admiral Electric


 * If you want this in the article, we'll need a reliable source that:
 * specifically states these facts and
 * notes that this film contradicts them. --Boycool (talk) 14:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Gerard Monaco as Spanish Captain
I just want to point out that in the casting section, it says "Gerard Monaco as Spanish Captain". That is incorrect. As you can see in this official Disney image, it says that the character's name is called "Spanish Officer", not captain. So someone needs to change that, if you please. 75.89.201.239 (talk) 07:10, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Tamara
Tamara is not queen of the mermaids. Besides the news articles, NOTHING in the film has suggested "Oh no, it's the mermaid queen! Run for your lives!". So Tamara must be listed as just "an antagonistic mermaid". 75.91.1.5 (talk) 09:44, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What we take from the movie is our own point of view, but what is in the news articles is sourced material we are obliged to use. --Boycool (talk) 12:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Wrong. The only source which we are obliged to use is whatever the producers say, because they do indeed know more than a normal viewer. If some newspaper says "Wow, she is so Queen of the mermaids" it is still no more than a random unsourced POV of some journalist. And there is absolutely nothing that would hint at a special role for Tamara. So, if anybody says that she is more than a random antagonist this person has to justify this statement. And not the other way around. Btw: Reference [33] neither mentions the name "Tamara" nor does it say "queen" anywhere... --80.140.122.94 (talk) 23:29, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Box Office
Really, the box office section is too long.

There is no need at all for such a large amount of detail - it unbalances the article. A table with figures and perhaps a brief comment would probably be more appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.77.70.93 (talk) 08:15, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

First of all, I want to thank the writer for his hard work in writing all that box office news. I think the reason POTC4 requires such a long detailed box office section is because it has broken many records. However, some parts needs a bit of shortening like Latin of America and Europe. I don't mean a huge cut down but the removal of unnecessary facts and numbers from so many countries. --Eddyghazaley (talk) 13:32, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Should we make a sub-article about the box-office performance of On Stranger Tides similarly to Harry Potter 7 Part 2? --Spinc5 (talk) 20:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Home media
The home media information for the film was released today. Only a little bit of information has been released, but I'm guessing the rest of the press release will follow at some point today. I started a draft for the section, which can be found here. As more information is released, I will supplement it. I would love to get some feedback on it before implementing the edits. Any and all feedback is welcome. Thanks. --TravisBernard (talk) 15:52, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have updated the home media section to reflect my draft. I'm happy to continue discussing the section, with particular emphasis on the detail of the bonus features. Thanks. --TravisBernard (talk) 18:43, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In the process of implementing the edits, I noticed that the release section was a sub-section of reception, so I pulled it out as its own section. According to MOS:Film, reception and release can be two separate major sections.  --TravisBernard (talk) 19:04, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

WP:FILM Assessment
Per a request at WikiProject Film/Assessment, I have reviewed the article to see if it should be upgraded from Start class. After reading the majority of the article (I skipped the plot for any future viewing of the film), I went through and made some fixes throughout. Please review my changes for accuracy. There are only a few offhand issues I noticed that should be resolved prior to a GAN review:
 * 1) The image screenshot issues need to be resolved (both currently are tagged on the images' pages. For fair-use requirements, I don't see the reason to have both as Blackbeard is present in the second screenshot with Depp and Cruz. I would recommend removing the first screenshot and there should be no issue keeping the other one (as it is showing the two new main characters in this film). The Depp free image should face the text. Determine if any other free images can be incorporated into the article.
 * 2) I saw a few blogs and unreliable sources being used in the article. Go through and verify that the current citations meet the RS criteria and see if others cover the material being introduced by the unreliable ones.
 * 3) Definitely have someone copyedit the article. I found a few sentences lacking a beginning, but possibly missed a few more (sorry, getting tired).
 * 4) There is a link provided to the list of accolades, but no introduction to any awards received. Start a brief section within the reception section that covers a few of the awards so at least there's an overview.
 * 5) This isn't a requirement, but I would highly recommend using WebCite to archive the links before they begin to go bad. It would be a shame to lose the large amount of sources that are available for citing this article.

As these can be resolved prior to a reviewer looking over the article, I am going to assesses this as B for now. Please let me know if there are any questions on the above. Good job on cleaning the article up and helping to keep the dedicated topic on the series up-to-date. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 05:17, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Revision of copyedits
Um, I would like to know why the copyedits I made were reverted. They were made on a request at WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests by... ahem, it seems the very editor who has now reverted my edits. The requester did ask that the copyedits be made before the article was reviewed for GA status. Unfortunately, none of my compatriots had a chance to get around to it by then. But, I see nothing wrong with copyediting an article while it is being reviewed. Certainly, I've done it several times before, and we do want to try to make the best possible article, don't we? Most of my edits without question improved the clarity of this article, in my opinion -- but I'm afraid my bridge is burned now. Bobnorwal (talk) 04:50, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This edit suggests that he had a bad internet connection and reverted your edits on accident. --Boycool (talk) 14:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Poster
Is this poster not real or something? I'm sure it was up before and I can't see how the current one, featuring one character, can be considered better than one that compensates for four NFC images by featuring all 4 main characters.

http://www.impawards.com/2011/pirates_of_the_caribbean_on_stranger_tides_ver9.html

Darkwarriorblake (talk) 15:07, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The one you are looking at is the international poster. If you look at the bottom, it says "in cinemas."  This is usually the easiest way to determine if the poster is from the UK vs. US.  The current one on the page is the official poster from the US release of the film.--TravisBernard (talk) 16:50, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Critical Reception Summary
Consider these facts:
 * Rotten Tomatoes verdict is "rotten" (33 %)
 * Metacritic gives "mixed or average" (45 %). However, a quasi-random sample (first page of movies tarting with "M") has a median of 57, a result of 45 if about at 25 % from the bottom. This makes it a far below average.

So how exactly are the reviews not "mostly negative"? --91.10.25.182 (talk) 18:41, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I asked for some help at WT:FILM because apparently I can't explain this well. Usually, our mixed/positive/negative statement comes from Metacritic (if they have a consensus available).  In this case Metacritic says mixed.  Frequently, when there is a dispute over that interpretation, we simply jump straight to the stats and omit the consensus mixed/negative sentence entirely; it helps avoid edit warring.  I used to think it was based more on their percentages (both RT and MC), myself, so I understand being confused in that way.  Their percentages are based on the scores the reviewers give the film. If you sit down and play with the math it starts to make more sense.  As a hypothetical, say 2 positive reviews give the film a 6/10 and two negative reviews give it a 2/10 and 1/10 each.  When you average those scores you end up with a 3.75/10 (or 38%, rounded) which seems like the negative end of mixed.  But you had 2 positive and two negative reviews which is mixed evenly between reviewers who liked and disliked it.  Saying "mostly negative" implies it was panned (or nearly so) which has not been the case at all.  Millahnna (talk) 19:28, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, there is a whole paragraph starting "On Stranger Tides also had positive reviews", implying that everything mentioned before is negative in some way.
 * I think the numbers (33 % and 25 % from the bottom) make it a "mostly negative", in that there are more negative than positive reviews. (It should say "overwhelmingly negative" or "universally panned".)
 * Just to avoid confusion: I don't even know the movie and have thus no opinion on it.
 * What about my latest change? --91.10.25.182 (talk) 19:47, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Heh. I haven't seen it either (haven't worked on the text in that section for that matter).  I tend to try and avoid ranges like that myself, but I do think it's more accurate than just negative and I don't see anything wrong with it. It's when people put "mixed to mostly negative/positive" that there's an issue since that's "sort of to essentially meaningless" when you break down the language.  I know some other editors edit away from ranges entirely, so someone else might change it, but that works for me.


 * Whoever wrote the section focused on the negative reviews first for whatever reason (nothing wrong with that); that's why there's that shift to positive. In the few reception projects I've done (procrastinating a big one right now) I've noticed the pattern for that sort of thing changes depending on how all of the reviews shape up.  SO sometimes it's easier to do pos/neg/pos/neg and sometimes it's easier to start with one and then the other.  It just sort of depends on how each review is written (do the people who like it have very little negative to say or do they like it despite some major flaws).


 * Seriously though, film project peeps who might be reading this... I'm rubbish at explaining this without getting into the math which is why I asked for help. If you can think of a way to word this stuff that would help me not go into arithmetic mode, I'd really appreciate it.  Millahnna (talk) 20:08, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * So let's keep the range and wait for somebody to come up with new arguments. --91.10.25.182 (talk) 20:16, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Metacritic says 45, and flat out says "mixed or average" on the site. RT is more negative and says flat out "rotten".  It is not fair to give Rotten Tomatoes special privilege to decide what the outcome of the film reception was, and I say that as someone who say through all 2 hours plus of that boring waste of time and money. Metacritic collects 32 positive/mixed reviews to 7 negative while RT collects reviews from hundreds of sources, some of what wikipedia would consider less important or notable.  Therefore I believe it fairer to say mixed/average reception. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:27, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Metacritic's 45 is a quarter up from the bottom, far below average. BTW, It is not fair to give Metacritc special privilege to decide what the outcome of the film reception was. Unless there is a reasoned consensus about this of course. Also, Metacritic collects 28 negative/mixed reviews to only 11 positive. --91.10.25.182 (talk) 20:45, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Also Rotten Tomatoes has a score of 5 out of 10, which I would say is mixed. —Mike Allen   22:47, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * RT has a score of 33 %. Also: Make up your minds, is it the description ("rotten" & "average/mixed") or the numbers (33 % & 45 %). In both cases, "mixed to negative" matches. --91.10.25.182 (talk) 23:21, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry I should have been clearer: RT has a rating average of 5 out of 10. Why does everyone seem to dismiss that?  —Mike  Allen   00:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Probably because we don't always have it in articles and it's in a fairly small font on RT's website, relative to the rest of the page. Millahnna (talk) 00:48, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Accolades
According to IMDb, the film has received 10 nominations but not all of them appear on here, neither on the franchise's awards page (even though when you count you'd think it does). Nominations missing: I also noted the film received a nomination from the Art Directors Guild for Fantasy Film, see here http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/art-directors-guild-announces-nominations-277724 I don't know which awards should appear on both pages or which ones should ONLY appear on the main awards page.--Sofffie7 (talk) 21:16, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * World Soundtrack Award
 * Artios Award from the Casting Society of America¨
 * Annie Awards
 * ALMA Awards

Budget
I was wondering: it says that the film's budget is between $150 million and $250 million. There are references for both prices. But the reference for $250 million is from the Box Office Mojo, which is a VERY reliable source. The reference for $150 million is some reviewer who isn't citing where he got his information. The box office mojo is an official website that basically gets their information right from the studio. I would like to delete the "$150 million" thing and say it's budgeted at $250 million. Can anyone back me up? The Shadow-Fighter (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no objection. Elizium23 (talk) 19:52, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * BOM gets its info from where everyone else gets it, thin air. Studios rarely release budgets officially for good reason, most budgets are just estimates and BOM has picked one and ran with it. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 19:56, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * So... can I do it? I need your permission. The Shadow-Fighter (talk) 21:13, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

American in lead paragraph
when I try to add "American" to the movie, Darkwarriorblake revert it, the movie is from United States, so need to have the "American" Thanks. MervinVillarreal (talk) 18:12, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Mervin is correct. WP:FILMLEAD says "ideally, the nationality of the film should be identified in the opening sentence. If the nationality is ambiguous, clarify the circumstances at a later point in the first paragraph." Since the nationality is not ambiguous as far as I am aware, we can use "American" in the lead sentence. Elizium23 (talk) 23:33, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

so? 190.198.26.57 (talk) 18:52, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

From speculation to clear plot details
It said on the (edit screen) main page that Syrena's reasoning for taking Philip underwater is never explained. I know that others may have different opinions to this, but to me, it's perfectly clear. At White Cap Bay, Derrick (one of Blackbeard's pirates) said, "I heard it said that a kiss from a mermaid protects a sailor from drowning." The pirates were then dragged underwater and eaten because of their evil hearts and evil intentions. But Syrena saw that Philip was not like them. Philip fell in love with Syrena and she reciprocates his feelings. She saved him and gave him the power of protection from drowning and took him underwater so they could be together. Other's may disagree with this, but that's the way I see it. I hope others will as well. High Orbit (talk) 16:54, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Confusion over the budget
There have been some recent edits replacing the $378.5 million figure with a range of $180–250 million. The $180–250 million figure is out of date information; when the film was released back in 2011 there was a range of estimates from news outlets such as Variety ($150 million), LA Times ($200 million) and Box Office Mojo ($250 million), but recent developments make these amounts irrelevant.

In July 2014 Forbes magazine reported it had obtained financial statements revealing the cost of the production at $410.6 million, minus a $32.1 million rebate under the UK's Film Tax Relief system. As the reporter explains in the article: "Shooting in the United Kingdom made it eligible for a government film tax credit scheme which entitles movies with expenditure of more than $34.1 million (£20 million) to claim back up to 20% of their production costs. The expenses of movies qualifying for the scheme are consolidated in a single company which is unusual in the film industry. It makes it easier to work out a movie’s entitlement under the tax credit scheme and it gives great insight into its finances."

While the article does not explicitly give the budget, it gives the cost ($410.6 million) and the rebate ($32.1 million) so it is possible to calculate the budget by subtracting the rebate from the cost (permitted on Wikipedia by WP:CALC). This is made clearer in the case of John Carter where Forbes do bother to provide the budget figure: "It filed four sets of financial statements between 2010 to 2013 with the latter becoming available this year. Total costs came to $306.6 million (£192.6 million) and peaked annually at $130.6 million (£85 million) in 2010 when 435 staff worked on the production ... The financial statements reveal that the British tax authority handed Disney $42.9 million (£27.1 million) to make John Carter ... The tax payment to John Carter gave the picture a net budget of $263.7 million which is far more than estimates predicted."

Now, if editors take the time to read the two Forbes articles it will be clear to them that these figures are not estimates, as is usually the case with film budgets. They are taken from accounts submitted by Disney to the British government under its tax relief scheme, and audited by the UK tax authority. There is absolutely no reason to defer to outdated estimates when we have audited figures at our disposal. Betty Logan (talk) 06:42, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

since the quoted in forbes was released the dollar/euro exchange rate has changed not its £240.7 million which at todays exchange rate is $311,923,130.00 US Dollar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.79.80.120 (talk) 15:18, 25 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The value of the pound dropped significantly after Brexit. Prior to then the pound-dollar exchange rate was stable and should reflect the value at the time the film was made, not the value today i.e. Disney were buying pounds at the 2010/11 rate, not the 2016/17 rate. Betty Logan (talk) 18:18, 25 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The forbes link measures the budget up until 2013, which could include marketing costs. Traditionally, the wikipedia budget doesn't include that. The film's actual production budget is likely smaller than 370 million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.148.138.149 (talk) 01:33, 14 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Marketing and finance costs are not eligible costs according to https://www.rawlinson-hunter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/BTG-Film-Tax-Relief-Oct-152.pdf. Cost are limited to pre-production, production and post-production. It is likely there is some lag i.e. costs incurred in 2011 will probably not be rebated until the 2012/2013 fiscal year. Betty Logan (talk) 22:43, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Suck-you-byes as Mermaids reference
Was told to bring it up here to reach consensus with other editors, so here goes. As noted, the fourth Pirates movie uses elements from Tim Power's book On Stranger Tides. What isn't noted, however, is what the "brief mermaid reference" was actually referring to. Taking what was actually written in Powers' book, they were not referred to as "mermaids" but "suck-you-byes". Personally, I'd rather note what was in the book itself (assuming it's enough as a "cited source") rather than mislead the readers with the un-referenced mermaids...of course, that's assuming anyone actually reads the book.

If I may be so bold as to suggest this paragraph, or something similar to it, as the final edit should it be made...
 * The duo decided to employ another sea myth alluded in the previous episodes: mermaids, which are briefly referenced in the book. Although Tim Powers stated mermaids weren't in the novel, there was a brief reference to "suck-you-byes" as "female demons that weirdly and erotically occupied the last hours of men marooned on barren islands". In the film, mermaids appear to be siren-like; succubus took the form of a siren in real-world folklore.

Please put some insight into this semi-important matter. At least for actual book-readers. Thanks for any input! 71.30.30.122 (talk) 13:36, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

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The budget
Betty Logan change the budget. Pirates 4 today cost $331 milion, no $410 milion Jacopo Alighieri (talk) 11:21, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Great, another sock puppet for Carlo Galanti. Foodles42 (talk) 19:35, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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